Should films be governmentally funded?

[Alex_W]

Let's stop mixing art with culture.

....hmmm. I suspect you may be on your own with this one.

I agree. The idea of art as an autonomous phenomenon is ahistorical, romantic BS.

[sunrise]

Do you think that process is more conducive to great filmmaking than the free market, though?
...
Arguing that Wajda or Tarkovsky's work was actually improved by the restrictive regime seems speculative to me.

Most arguments Tarkovskij had was that his film were to high brow arty for the general public and his stories should be clearer and more in the social realism style that was favoured from the Stalin period and onwards. Films were often shelved by Mosfilm because they were suspected to fail at the box office. Later Tarkovskij, for instance, had a hard time convincing his Swedish finaciers that they should build another holiday day house to burn when Sven Nykvist's camera messed up during the first 7 minute one-take. No change there..

But, there has been made equally great films in the free market. I just don't think that films funded by government puts restrictions on the artist that wouldn't be in the free market world. The Hayes code and the McCarthy trials are two fine examples.

michael

[timdrage]

Later Tarkovskij, for instance, had a hard time convincing his Swedish finaciers that they should build another holiday day house to burn when Sven Nykvist's camera messed up during the first 7 minute one-take. No change there..

Ah, i watched the making-of the other day.... so stressfull when that happened! They wisely had 2 cameras for the second attempt!!

[M'Lord]

* i truly think that economy was always around though. it played a lesser part when we were still nomads, but it was there, and i'm sure it had a play in the creation of the cave paintings too...

/matt

The monarch of the tribe commissioned the artist to paint him as the hero of the hunt, though the artist had great liberty to do what else he wished, and thus the first art was borne. There was no cultural council at work then, parting out choice cuts of the hunt for the artist to glorify the odds of the tribe who did not fit in, though they could manage quite well if they tried, nor do we need such artificial things now with government funded film-making. It is an artificial standard, similar to France's foolish government funded Salon in the 19th Century which gave birth to the Impressionists and other movements which were a reaction against it, sponsored by independant Patrons.

[steve hyde]

But, there has been made equally great films in the free market. I just don't think that films funded by government puts restrictions on the artist that wouldn't be in the free market world. The Hayes code and the McCarthy trials are two fine examples.
michael

I think you make an excellent point here when you acknowledge the fact that both privately funded films and publicly funded films will come with distinct restrictions on the artist. As we know those who privately fund films want a return on the investment in a monetary form. With publicly funded films we expect a return on the investment in the form of a meaningful cultural artifact.

[fritzcarraldo]

* i truly think that economy was always around though. it played a lesser part when we were still nomads, but it was there, and i'm sure it had a play in the creation of the cave paintings too...

/matt

The monarch of the tribe commissioned the artist to paint him as the hero of the hunt, though the artist had great liberty to do what else he wished, and thus the first art was borne. There was no cultural council at work then, parting out choice cuts of the hunt for the artist to glorify the odds of the tribe who did not fit in, though they could manage quite well if they tried, nor do we need such artificial things now with government funded film-making. It is an artificial standard, similar to France's foolish government funded Salon in the 19th Century which gave birth to the Impressionists and other movements which were a reaction against it, sponsored by independant Patrons.

Yes, but you only get to see the paintings right? You'll never get the economic situation there.

It's gone, only the paintings survive.

Only great things survive time.

[fritzcarraldo]

Let's stop mixing art with culture.

....hmmm. I suspect you may be on your own with this one.

I agree. The idea of art as an autonomous phenomenon is ahistorical, romantic BS.

Great, i admit to be romantic.

[Evan Kubota]

"Most arguments Tarkovskij had was that his film were to high brow arty for the general public and his stories should be clearer and more in the social realism style that was favoured from the Stalin period and onwards."

Maybe Tarkovsky wasn't the best example since his films are much more personal and less explicitly political than works from the Polish school. He was able to basically make what he wanted due to his international status... I don't think most directors in the USSR had as much 'freedom'.

In Poland the censorship was quite specific and strong - one of Kieslowski's early features (either 'The Calm' or 'The Scar') was shelved for years simply because it contained a scene where prisoners were working in the background. The Kino DVDs have some interesting interviews with former censors, who don't seem to have retained very much attachment to the party line they were supposed to maintain.

[audadvnc]

I suppose it was easier to toe the line knowing that they'd shoot you if you screwed up.

[VideoFred]

Fred, Take a closer look at who is benefiting from increasingly globalized free markets. 100 years ago the majority of people in the world had nothing: no possessions, no health care, no social security, high infant mortality rates. Take a look at the world today: the majority of people have few possessions, no health care, no social security and high infant mortality rates. Many places in post colonial Africa are actually worse than it was fifty years ago.

Hi Steve,

I was referring to the Western world.
You can not deny it improved a lot here, can you?
If it's possible here, then it must be possible anywhere.
Without taken anything from other people, this time!

So we can only hope other regions will follow.
But this takes time.
Again, 100 years is not so much if you look at the entire history.

Now about Africa: we, white people, had nothing to do there.
We should have leave those people alone.
But it's to late, now.
So we must help them, now.
Not colonise them again.

Fred.

PS: But in general (not personal, Steve) I hear very very negative things, here.

Is this what you all teach your children:
"This world is a mess and it never gonna change"

No wonder so many young people are taking drugs...

Fred.

[VideoFred]

You live in complete chaos?
I don't.

welcome, neo, to the real world. the seemingly ordered structure of your life is a simulacrum. come on, you don't even have to read baudrillard or think for yourself, it's enough to watch a pretty good action movie once in a while.

but of course ignorance is bliss, especially in the land of steak, mayo and the best beer around...

/matt

Haha Matt, you amuse me :lol:

Who's Baudrillard ? I do not read anything.. no time.
My life is ordered and you are saying I just imagine this?
It begins with the mind.. My mind is ordered. No chaos in my head.
I can recommand this to everyone: keep order in your mind first.

I'm a complete different person than you think I am.
I think.... Many people are afraid to realy think.
Also, I think different than most people around me...
Including this (awesome) forum.
Now who's the rebel here?

Yes, the land of steak... you realy must live here to understand it.
Belgium as a little 'Absurdistan'
And chokolates.. You forgot Belgian chokolates!

But I do not ignore anything... Where do you see the chaos?
I mean in our way of life.
Or maybe you like chaos.. You're free to do whatever you like.
But I'm not blind, of cource.
Of cource I see what goes wrong worldwide.

But you make films... You must be good in organising... Otherwise no film, but chaos.
Or do you have employees to organise things for you?

There's even an incredible organising in nature..
Suppose there where no spiders... Then we all would die by insects. etc...etc...

But I'm shure you gonna find an argument again to prove the opposite, as usual


Fred.

[sunrise]

Maybe Tarkovsky wasn't the best example since his films are much more personal and less explicitly political than works from the Polish school.

Quite right. I only know Soviet film policy through all years, you seem to be more knowledgable on Poland. But what about Hungary? That was a great country for filmmakers.

michael

[S8 Booster]

Should films be governmentally funded?

yes, youll see a lot of films with a huge variety which never are/were going to be made if commercial (read profits) is the driving force.

that said, in this country piles of shit has been produced with help of government funding but that is due to huge incompetenace with those examining the film projects.

s/hoot

[mattias]

fred, i was just trying ot provoke a more thought through reply, and i got it, thanks. i have absolutely no preconceived ideas about who you are, except those coming from your nationality which you can never escape, but you seem to confirm them too. ;-) my girlfriend is french but her family belgian, so i've visited lots of parties and weddings down there. insane yet fantastic.

/matt

[S8 Booster]

oh, i thought it was only me ;-)

tnx

s/hoot