Wallmart the Movie! please no flame war..

[JGrube]

I fully agree that Wal-Mart has done nothing illegal. If they had, there would be nothing to debate, they would have broken the law and faced the consequences of the legal system (hopefully). The real question is POWER. In the same way that Saudi Arabia has every right to raise the price of oil, or in the same way that our government has the right to sell Israeli made assault rifles to the Guatemalan security forces. But in spite of being perfectly legal, there are aspects of those transactions that upset people.

When I lived in Detroit, I worked as a logistics supervisor for Ford Motor Company. We weren't a monopoly, certainly we weren't the only auto manufacturer in town. But it didn't matter, we were so huge with so much money that we had a stranglehold on our suppliers. Every year, we MADE them lower their per-piece cost of their supplies, regardless of the cost to them. Some could handle it, some we dropped because they couldn't. Alex is on to something, Wal-Mart has a similar policy, they demand the lowest price available going in, and push annually to lower that price. It's true, Rubbermaid SHOULD probably have cut its wages to salvage those couple of years. Instead, they sold off most of the equipment in their Wooster plant. I'd name the principal purchaser, but my computer doesn't do Chinese characters (d'oh).

Again, Wal-Mart is within their rights to do what is necessary to support their model. But they DO have real power, and we like to think that the Horatio Alger thing is true and that power brings responsibility and that VIRTUE is the road to success. The truth we see is rather: hard-nosed pragmatism is the ultimate victor, and the only truly "right" thing is the profitable thing. Now, when Wal-Mart gave a large donation for hurricane relief, that was a NICE thing that they did. It didn't increase their profits, but sometimes PR is a greater form of profit. Something to be considered....

Just rambling along...

Jason

[Alex]

Walmart is already importing plenty of products. They literally took another American company and ground them to their knees!

There MUST be a balance of out of country production to in country production. Wbat I have learned on this thread is I WILL pick up a picket and some point in front of a Walmarts (located near me) and tell the plight of rubermaid.

What especially pisses me off is the conservative "god fearing" bajillionaire in the United States that thinks impeaching Bill Clinton for lying about a BJ is the morally correct thing to do, yet Condleeza Rice was SHOPPING FOR SHOES a day after Hurricane Katrina ended, Rumsfeld was at a Padres game, Dick Cheney was on his personal plantation tending to his land, and Bush was fundraising.

These Republican leader assholes have created such a double standard for their pious better than thou attitude, and they get away with it At least after Clinton was consensually serviced, he was back on the job.

FUCK WALMART.

If you go in there to get your film processed, that's fine by me because there really aren't that many other locations to take your film, but I don't recommend buying anything else.

[Alex]

It's true, Rubbermaid SHOULD probably have cut its wages to salvage those couple of years. Instead, they sold off most of the equipment in their Wooster plant. I'd name the principal purchaser, but my computer doesn't do Chinese characters (d'oh).

Jason

For me, this crosses a line. Walmart wants to set up shop in the United States, then don't actually price gouge an American Production line simply because the price they pay for resin has gone up.

I disagree that RubberMaid Should have accommodated Walmart and kept their price lower. That just increases the price chasms between other stores carrying rubbermade products. The other stores begin to subsidize Walmart by paying more for the same product from Rubbermaid then Walmart does!

The fact that Rubbermaid manufacturing equpment was then sent to China is evil in the following way, every decade a new wave of industrialization happens in a different part of the world, each time this happens, the United States loses part of their industrial base.

This inevitablilty does not need to be hastened by a company that operates in this country and makes billions of dollars here already! Just who are the fuckers that run Walmart, what are there politics, and are they church going people pious in the belief that they are better than others as they chop their neighbors jobs off at the kneecaps?

I'm fucking glad that the asshole Walmart heir crashed and burned in his own plane. If I had been nearby I would thrown a rubbermaid container on his fucking carcass, it would have classed up the smell of human excrement.

Fuck you Walmart.

[marc]

So much for this not being a flame war!

[MovieStuff]

This inevitablilty.....

So it will happen anyway, regardless of Walmart's existence!

.... does not need to be hastened by a company that operates in this country and makes billions of dollars here already!

Now we get to the real gripe that is always at the center of Walmart bashing: They simply make too much damned money.

I don't mind if someone wants to make that argument right out in the open (and it might actually be a legitmate argument on certain levels) but, instead, we get all kinds of peripheral arguments about lack of healthcare, low wages, overseas production, etc. Never mind that their unskilled workers had no healthcare before Walmart or that the low paycheck they get is the first paycheck they've seen in years or that countless competing stores sell millions of products produced overseas, as well.

Nope, that's all just backstory to what really pisses people off and that is how successful Walmart is in the same free market that its detractors can't seem to navigate as successfully. Small wonder their arguments don't make sense. It's hard to understand what they're saying with a mouthful of sour grapes. ;)

Roger

[JGrube]

Alex:

I disagree that RubberMaid Should have accommodated Walmart and kept their price lower.

I know just why you feel that way. Because it would have been A CRUMMY THING TO HAVE TO DO. In priciple, it sucks, and we like to think that a good old American Company with good old American values would have said: "Hey buddy, we can ride out the resin hike for a few months, that's what partners do!". But they didn't, they followed the ultra logical Wal-Mart + Rubbermaid + Resin Hike = less than minimum price ergo replace Rubbermaid formula. It's cold and practical and it fits their sucessful model.

When I say Rubbermaid "should" have, I mean in a practical sense, that's what would have saved the plant. In principle, no one should have to cow-tow to an ultrapowerful company, but you do, BECAUSE they're ultrapowerful. It was true when I was at Ford (by the time I moved we were getting our electronic components from Mexico) and it's true for Wal-Mart. I personally believe that Wal-Mart could be a wonderful company, but putting forward a "nice-guy" persona is not yet on their agenda.

[Actor]

they INSISTED on a zip code, so I left my items right there and walked out of the store.

Just tell them 89820.

[monobath]

I fully agree that Wal-Mart has done nothing illegal.

Agreed, not illegal. Also not unethical.

Alex is on to something, Wal-Mart has a similar policy, they demand the lowest price available going in, and push annually to lower that price. It's true, Rubbermaid SHOULD probably have cut its wages to salvage those couple of years. Instead, they sold off most of the equipment in their Wooster plant.

Rubbermaid had a choice. Despite what you or I personally feel about it, I'm no one to say what they should have done, and neither are you.

If Rubbermaid raises its prices to the small five and dimes (dollar stores, nowadays), refusing to sell them product at a lower price that the dollar store wants, just as they refused to sell to Walmart at the lower price that Walmart wanted, is Rubbermaid suddenly the big bad bully?

Is that it? The biggest company in any exchange is the bully?

[monobath]

Walmart is already importing plenty of products. They literally took another American company and ground them to their knees!

This is silly, Alex. If the most profitable steak house in town stops buying beef from a local rancher because he can buy beef as good or better from Argentina for 20% less, is it the steak restaurant's fault if the local rancher goes bust? Did the steak restaurant grind the rancher to his knees?

Do you understand what business is about? Do you favor protectionism? Do you think the bigger businesses are responsible for keeping the smaller businesses solvent?

[Alex]

Is that it? The biggest company in any exchange is the bully?

Generally, yes. Would that surprise you? The biggest companies usually have the most money to influence polticians via donations.

[monobath]

In principle, no one should have to cow-tow to an ultrapowerful company, but you do, BECAUSE they're ultrapowerful.

You are implying that there is coercion. There is not. Walmart doesn't owe Rubbermaid anything, and Rubbermaid can't compel Walmart to buy its product. They can do business or not, as they choose. BOTH of them have a choice.

I personally believe that Wal-Mart could be a wonderful company, but putting forward a "nice-guy" persona is not yet on their agenda.

Being a nice-guy is, well, nice I guess. But it is not a pre-requisite for success. And besides, it's Walmart's money. They can decide to spend it with Rubbermaid or with some competing manufacturer. Rubbermaid is a potential supplier for Walmart, not a beneficiary.

[Alex]

This inevitablilty.....

So it will happen anyway, regardless of Walmart's existence!

Yes Roger, a portion of the loss of industry is inevitable, but that does mean it makes sense to quicken the process from within.

.... does not need to be hastened by a company that operates in this country and makes billions of dollars here already!

Now we get to the real gripe that is always at the center of Walmart bashing: They simply make too much damned money.

[/quote]

Nope, the issue as I stated had to do with Walmart bullying actual manufacturing companies located in the United States and in the process actually causing these manufacturing companies to eliminate production lines, in the United States, that were efficient, but just not efficient enough, according to Walmart.

The reason there are not more protests against Walmart is people mistakenly think (as I did) that it od other companies like K-mart and Target complaining about Walmart. I didn't realize that Walmart actually bullied American Companies out of production and then once the intellectually property was sold to China, did business with China for the exact same product that was previously being made in the United States.

How many Walmarts are in China? And China ALREADY has a presence in Walmart, there is no need for Walmart to hasten the possibility that one day nothing they sell will be made in the United States, that is my point.

[reflex]

My preference would be for a free and unfettered market in oil and related products.

I live in the heart of Alberta, Canada's oil country. Drilling activity recently hit record levels, yet analysts publicly admit that convential oil reserves have peaked. That leaves the northern oilsands and some extremely nasty coalbed methane deposits to be tapped.

Unless we collectively give our heads a shake, our oil-driven paradise is going to be running on fumes. Wal-Mart would quickly become a footnote in our misguided suburban experiment: in a few years no one will be able to afford to ship plastic trinkets from China or truck 99 cent creampuffs across the entire continent.

To bring this thread back to film-land (or documentary videoland), I suggest watching The End Of Suburbia

[Alex]

My preference would be for a free and unfettered market in oil and related products.

I live in the heart of Alberta, Canada's oil country. Drilling activity recently hit record levels, yet analysts publicly admit that convential oil reserves have peaked. That leaves the northern oilsands and some extremely nasty coalbed methane deposits to be tapped.

Unless we collectively give our heads a shake, our oil-driven paradise is going to be running on fumes. Wal-Mart would quickly become a footnote in our misguided suburban experiment: in a few years no one will be able to afford to ship plastic trinkets from China or truck 99 cent creampuffs across the entire continent.

To bring this thread back to film-land (or documentary videoland), I suggest watching The End Of Suburbia

Not to worry, George Bush just asked everyone to start conserving. Although rumor has it that George was trying to say that everybody should start conversing and accidentally mixed up the pronunciation of the two words.

George Bush also came up with his own Will Rogers saying...."I never met a corporation that ever did even one thing wrong", including Wal Martian.

[MovieStuff]

the issue as I stated had to do with Walmart bullying actual manufacturing companies located in the United States and in the process actually causing these manufacturing companies to eliminate production lines, in the United States, that were efficient, but just not efficient enough, according to Walmart.

I understand your passion about this but your review of Walmart is like so many jaded film critics that forget the number one rule: You have to critique the film that was made and not the film that you wish had been made.

You may not like how the story line goes for some companies that get involved with Walmart but it is their chosen path. If a company wants to sell in Walmart, they have to voluntarily approach Walmart about the right to do so. Therefore, the manufacturer isn't going into this blind and is banking on the broad exposure and increased volume that Walmart will bring to the table. Presumably, said manufacturing company wants and needs this increased volume or it would not be negotiating with a company as "evil" as Walmart in the first place!

I mean, Walmart bashing has been around for years now. It is ubiquitous. Is there really ANY company considering business with Walmart that doesn't understand what the term "volume discount" really means? Walmart isn't the only venue to sell ones goods and, most importantly, Walmart can't make a company sell its product at Walmart.

Roger